My intentions started pure enough. I was growing tired of watching the right-wing fringe element of American politics trample over intellectual progressive with whom I felt some strange sort of kinship. I wanted so bad to reach through the screen and strangle the idiots who advocate armed rebellion and slandered my country while, unbeknownst to them, defending corrupt insurance companies that are complacent in countless deaths and ruined lives. I just wanted to talk to these teabaggers and try to insert some rational dialog into their right-wing discourse. I come before you today as a failure.
I had this dream, nay; this delusion that once I challenged their cries of ‘nazi!’ with historical fact and logic, they would quietly back down from their comparisons with the Fürher. This was my first mistake.
I did anticipate the protectionist talking points that were articulately conveyed through lines such as
IT IS NOT ANY OTHER COUNTRIES CONCERN BUT OURS, SO BACK THE F;;K OFF!!
and
How does it feel to know that your country gained its freedom off the backs of my forefathers blood and sweat? That’s right, Canada came to be because once we beat England, they didnt have the heart to hold on to their territory up there.
The fact is that these people have no interest in facts, figures, statistics or anything that goes against the conventional wisdom that America is the absolute best place and everywhere else in the world is an Ayn Rand dystopia (except Israel.)
I guess ignorance should be expected from a place named after September 12th; a means of harkening back to fear, paranoia and American imperialism. Some highlights of the foreign policy debate;
Greneda. What part of Cubans invading the island and taking American medical students hostage you don’t understand? We went in and solved the problem comrade.
Which, of course, is an egregious lie. Castro himself urged the 700 Cuban construction workers on the island to not infere at all.
Then there’s some advice in regards to the Korean War;
Pres. Truman fought it with allies, but they blinked! When the Chinese invaded and escalated the war, Truman should have listened to Gen. MacArthur and nuked Peking and Beijing.
And then there’s a brief history of American-Haitian relations that the so-called ‘military historian’ detailed for me;
Haiti. Didn’t do anything there execpt send refugees back.
He seems to forget the long history of CIA involvement in anti-democratic activity in the country. Perhaps the greatest irony was when he said:
I wouldn’t dream of telling any country on this planet how to live.
Perhaps the most entertaining frightening lesson I was taught by these wack-jobs was in German and Russian history. Their logical fallacies became very apparent and astounding to me;
1) The communists promised the people of Eastern Europe a new era of equality and economic plenty under a socialist system (Hope and Change anyone?)
3) The communists swiftly established “People’s Democracies” in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Albania, and Czechoslovakia. Eastern Germany was at first a Soviet military occupation zone, but soon became the German Democratic Republic under German communist party rule.(Note the use of the word Democracy to describe a Communistic rule, still used by progressives today when referring to America as a democracy, they use the word for propagana reasons)
What do the births of Hitler’s Germany, Mussolini’s Italy, Lenin’s Russia all have in common? Hint:“Sunshine and Lollipops” for a desperate population. Subverting a system of government is no easy task and requires the mutation and customization of the very structures of the government, with Obama this is being done quietly behind the scenes because any overt action would alert the public to the true ends. Since the media is still not completely under his control, the people still have a right to bear arms, a right to assemble, a right to free speech and a right to vote, he must be very careful not to tip his hand. Since he knows his time frame is limited, he is moving quickly so that when the final pieces are put in place, they will be up and running.
Nazi Germany, need I say more? Look, if you want the government to run everything in your life, then please, stay in Canada or Europe. I personally do not want the government to run every aspect in my life or tell me when I should die and pick a method.
What you should be reading;
Obama wants change
Hitler wanted change
Therefore Obama is Hitler
These people also showed some fundamental misunderstandings of a variety of other issues. Economics, for one:
Practically every economist on Wall Street denounce Keynesian economics! It doesn’t work! True Capitalism does work, and has worked for over 200 years making it, and us, the most powerful nation on earth!
The idea that America is a pure capitalist state is laughable, and the assertion that Kensyian economics, which is the status quo for just about every mixed-market economy, is dead is equally hilarious.
Statistics is another place where they have trouble:
Personally I don’t care what the data says for or against. I don’t care if President Obama came up with the best Health Care System imaginable I would still be against it because the Government that WE have not Canada has NO BUSINESS providing health care and/or any of a myriad of other programs that we have.
You seem like a somewhat educated person, ever take College statistics courses? Numbers can be manipulated to prove both sides of an issue. In College we used to do it, just to see who could finagle them into the best format to prove their point. For every “study” you quote I can provide another one with equally “valid” results, they are a waste of time for both of us and because of this they are a weak point in a debate. I prefer to use the real experiences of your own citizens and their testimonials to me, I believe them to be far more honest and much less prone to ulterior motivations, thank you. In a US court of law, testimonials are what get convictions, not statistics.
Read: I like to say that base all my opinions on whoever happens to speak to me, which is deplorable, but I actually base them on my own preconceived notions, which is infinitely worse.
But the real reason I started the thread was to discuss healthcare. I had become so utterly frustrated with the consistent political manipulation of our Canadian healthcare system, but also of attempts at reform by American progressives. The misinformation was ripe:
For all those Canadians who like their health care system there are many more who don’t and quite a lot of your people come here to America for care.
Regardless of the 86% of Canadians who want healthcare expanded. The number of Canadians who go the U.S for care is smaller than the number of Americans who go to Mexico for care just from California. There is actually quite a high number of Americans who travel for medical attention.
One only has to look at our Medicare/Medicade, VA Hospitals, and Native American Hospitals, to see that “ham-handed” government control is a failure. None of these systems are a success! It is the model for Socialized medicine. They are pitiful to say the least. Care is rationed to patients. The cost compared to services is outrageous. People die because they can’t get treatment or killed by inept doctors. This is a travesty of care that should be stopped and replaced.
Yet 65% support expanding and 96% say it’s integral to the country.
So I left them to their infighting (the thread may not read well because the most hilarious moronic poster appears to have had his account/posts deleted) until the Chosen one came along.
While the man is evidently quite clever and certainly produced the defense of his side that I have seen so far (which is no glowing compliment) his arguments were peppered with hilarity;
Everytime Candians seek to have health care improvements, they stoke the authoritarian collectivist masses with fear.
I took you for a far left liberal fraud, but alas, you proved otherwise [/sarcasm] by simply calling every single presented fact “bad” because in your opinion, they are not credible. I suppose credible means containing bloated far left histrionics, is that right? LOL
The problem is that you cannot seem to make an argument. The collectivist brain seems to be driven by conjecture and loosely (better abstractly) connected ideas, driven by emotional whim. Your analogies would make even the most narcissistic post modernist [?] ashamed…
…You couldn’t even seem to keep your nose out of our election process, it was afterall a Canadian who made a Bush assassination movie. The point is individualists constantly make points based on pragmatism and facts, your side on authoritarian intentions and conjecture. Take a look at how your side “protested” against Bush and the types of complaints levied vs. the complaints against B Hussein Obama (including health care). There is quite a difference.
It was said that GWB planned (or at least knew of) the 9-11 attacks, then used it as an excuse to invade two countries for oil just to make his friends richer.
It was said that GWB was Hitler.
It was said that GWB was stupid, and compared to a monkey.
It was said that GWB was to blame for a hurricane hitting New Orleans.
It was said that GWB blew up a levy to harm black people.
It was said that GWB evacuated white people from N.O. but not blacks.
It was said that GWB was listening to innocent Americans phone calls.
It was said that GWB was detaining innocent Americans for no reason.
It was said that GWB stole an election from Al Gore, despite recounts showing GWB won.
This list could go on if you simply searched for Bush on any MSM site.
So far for Obama-
It is said that he’s a communist.
It is said that he’s a fascist.
It is said that he was friends with a domestic terrorist.
It is said that he was friends with a controversial preacher.
It is said that he might not be a “natural born” citizen.
It is said that he might be a Muslim.
It is said that his healthcare plan needs to be discussed and has many of the critical flaws of already existent National Health Care Plans in other countries.
It is said that the health care plan is a gateway to expansion of Federal Power.
Enjoy the breathtaking view of stupidity, ladies and gentlemen.
It has been 14 days since I engaged these people. In those 14 days, tens of thousands of them and their kind descended on Washington to protest the fallacies that I pointed out for them. Did I have an impact? Probably not. Did it make me feel better? Not especially. So what did it get me? It’s like sticking up for the sniveling dweeb (read: Democrats) on the playground as he’s surrounded by an army of mal-adjusted bullies with daddy issues (read: Republicans). You know you can’t engage them directly, because they’ll pumpell you (or yell real loud) so you just tell them to back off. They don’t listen, but hey; at least you tried.
…To be continued?
